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ggeni
Class monitor
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Joined: 14 Sep 2007
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Location: Somewhere over the rainbow

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:57 pm    Post subject: HELP Reply with quote

I am working in year 2 with a boy newly diagnosed as ASD, most likely aspergers they think Exclamation . I have worked with 3 aspergers/autistic children before but none have shown the anger and rage that this little lad does. He regularly comes into school very angry and sometimes violent and has to be restrained (today he managed to kick me in the face).
Mum, teacher and myself are all struggling with him at the moment, outside help for mum now he's diagnosed seems to have dried up, he is in the process of being statemented. Any suggestions on how you deal with angry children would be great, as when he is like this there is no reasoning with him we have to just let him work the anger out, and afterwards he says he can't remember what he was angry about.
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summertime
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Joined: 29 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my first thought would be visual timetables and routines, his rage is probably to do with not knowing what to expect, children with asd have difficulty with social imagination, so wont be able to imagine what is going to happen when he gets to school as its always changing, this can be really scary for them and this is often why they kick off and become aggressive.

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ggeni
Class monitor
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Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 116
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks summertime, but we have all that in place, and the class routine is very set and well known by him. The problem most mornings is before he comes to school something at home sets him of and he does not want to come to school, and mum drags him in in a rage, most of which is directed at her, but as I said earlier when he does calm down he can nolonger remember what the problem was for us to help solve it.
Having meeting with SENCO and head tomorrow to try and get some more outside help for us and mum
Thanks again
ggeni
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veggie
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Joined: 30 Oct 2005
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Location: desperately searching for reason in a mad world

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you may have unfortunately answered your own question there ggeni; it seems that the trigger is something that is happening at home so you may have to have a long talk with mum to determine whether it is school that is causing the problem, or something at home? Also you need to see if she is also using some sort of visual timetable, as you have found using it at school is effective it may be that Mum needs the same sort of resource at home. I have found that using some sort of timetable, especially to explain that mon-fri is school sat and sun is home helps a lot.

Good luck
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trueblue
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I also add that he should not be taken straight into class? The first ASD child I worked with used to have 20-40 minutes each morning 'calm down' time doing something that he liked and that was usually enough to help him cope.

You need to get it sorted first, and once agreed discuss it with him whilst he is calm. Then when he comes in in the morning you can remind him that now he is in school we can go to do whatever it is it really helped my lad.

My current charge can sometimes come in stressed, if so we just go straight to library for him to read for a while.

They feel happier you do to.....

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George
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ggeni,

I think Veggie has hit the nail on the head.

It does sound like the family dynamics have become screwed up and you are getting the fall out. This is not a criticism of the mother.

It does sound like mornings have become a battle ground between the two of them. The problem is it does become a vicious circle and one difficult to get out off.

It can be complicated because the trigger can be difficult to work out, especially if the child does not remember what it was. I would also imagine there is a lot of stress and anxiety going on which will be fuelling the problem. Identifying those anxieties and stresses and dealing with them could make life a lot easier for all.

For instance I would not be surprised that one of the stresses and anxieties would be centered around getting him into school on time. The school could say for this term as long as she tries to get him in on time they are happy for him to arrive by 9.30 or 10.00 rather then 9.00 and she would not get into trouble for this. This would alleviate the time pressure factor allowing her to take things slower in the morning.

Another common problem could be part of the preschool ritual which is setting him off. This can be a variety of things, breakfast, washing, putting a coat on or a number of things. You would need mums co-operation to work this one out. However if this is the cause then there are tricks which can be used to help over come this.

For instance if the trigger is getting him to wash, or eat you could work out a reward scheme along with his mum. So for instance if the trigger is having to wash you agree with him if he eats breakfast (or what ever he does prior to washing) then goes for a wash without making a fuss mum/school or who ever will give him a treat. This ideally would be centred on something he would really like. The idea being he gets into a routine of doing it. Once he has gotten into the routine and proven he can do it you stop rewarding him for something he has shown he is able to do.

If he is autistic then there is the possibility that the issue is a sensory one. These can be extremely difficult to work out. For instance it could be he doesn't like the coat, it is too rough, too heavy etc. I've noticed coats can tend to be a problem. Our daughter hates wearing coats even when it pouring down.

It could even be something simple like a smell. Soap, deodrant, perfume, cooking smells etc. What he is eating for breakfast.

Hate to say it, but it could also be the original trigger to this behaviour no longer exists. Going to school has been stressful and he has become anxious. He expects it to be a time of conflict and it becomes self fullfilling.

If mum is co-operative get her to keep a diary for a couple of weeks. The more detailed it is the better. For it should start what time the boy went to bed, went to sleep, got up. What happens between waking up and getting to school. List all the mundane stuff, soap used, cereal, times etc. When the problem starts, her response. You will need to reassure her that you are not looking to judge her but to get a picture of what is happening when. So if she start shouting, or what ever, how the two interract etc.

From this someone should be able to advice her on how to move on. Tricks to calm herself down so she does not perpetuate and worsen the situation etc.

Importantly mum needs to note what he is complaining about when he first kicks off. It can quickly escalate and be forgotten. IE child makes a comment, mum reacts 'wrongly' and he reacts to that.

Sorry to muddy the waters, but it can be realy difficult to work out a trigger. On top of all this parents can fell realy crappy about their 'poor' parenting skills, or be concerned what others may think, so won't be quiet so open about some of the things as they will be worried about being judged, or even losing their children.

Children on the spectrum can find it very difficult to talk about thier feelings or express themselves verbally, especially after a meltdown. He may be a bit young, but have you tried asking him to write down why he is angry, upset etc.

Also just realised you have not mentioned if he has always been like this or if not when it started.

Another thing which has occurred to me is does he give signs when he is becoming anxious, upset or angry? For instance stimming, tapping or smacking himself, some strange little behaviour? This would also help to identify possible triggers.

When he is upset try avoiding physical contact, and keep communication to the minimum, he needs time to regain his composure so keeping stimuli to a minimum would help with this. Obviously if he is being physical then this isn't an option.

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ggeni
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Joined: 14 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you George that was so useful. We are having a meting next week with all parties to try and resolve some of the isues. His behaviour has got worse over the past week and we need to find out why.
Thanks for all your ideas
ggeni
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Jack-of-all-Trades
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just catching up.

Have you talked his morning through with mum.It could be that she isn't giving him enough time from getting up to going to school and everything is rushed. This really upsets ASD kids. Maybe some simple stratergies like giving him an alarm clock, laying the table for breakfast the night before and putting his clothes ready would help. It wouldn't actually take any more time for her in the morning because you would be encouraging his independence but allowing time for him even if she doesn't get up any earlier.Obviously you would have to be tactful.
I would also give him an area and something to punch like a large bean bag for any aggression with maybe time for water play afterwards.
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flowergirl
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi I have had the same problem with the child I support. After talks with the parents we narrowed it down to the stress and then the rush into school. I asked if the parents were able to bring him to school earlier so he could attend the school breakfast club to give him quite time before school started.
His parents agreed and thought this was a good idea and after giving the staff a 'pen picture' and talking to them they understood that if he wanted to be on his own that they would leave him.
After a week of coming in half an hour earlier and going to the club he was a different child, much happier and calmer.
So were his mum and dad!!
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