Tiki posted some interesting questions on punishments.
Does the punishment fit the crime. Is exclusion the easy option or a last resort ?
If a child does something wrong at school do we go out of our way to find the reason ?
This can be difficult, children often say we told Mr/Mrs Whoever but they didn't listen to me or didn't believe me. Some children go out of their way to get others in trouble.
How do we cope with them?
Do we follow up any punishments and see if there are any repercussions.?

I was impressed that the punishment stars son got, fitted the crime.
Does sitting in a room doing homework or worksheet do any good?
What sort of punishments are handed out at your schools for the different KSs ?

we sometimes have an internal exclusion. so pupils in KS2 have to stay in KS1 and not be with their friends.

our school do only tend to exclude as a very last resort.

sometimes though you get the feeling that it is done to give everyone a break!

well after my one to one pupil physically assaulting me and 2 other members of staff today he was excluded for 5 days.

and did the school consider the reasons why he did so, Lucy?

I could easily make my 1:1 lose it, especially this week when we have to do the SATs papers.

Exclusion should be a last resort, but it is often used as an easy option. It is also sometimes used as a way of forcing the LA to find a more suitable placement for a child.

hi ya Kaz

yes we do know why he does it. and we are very very caring and understanding with him.

he assaults staff on a daily basis - the exclusion policy states that if a pupil assaults staff they are to be excluded. as he does this on a regular basis it depends just how bad the assault is. in most schools in this area he would have been permanently excluded by now.

we are trying to get a statement and he will be leaving us to go to a behavioural school, the problem is he is a bright kid. but he is only 5.

he is on the CPR.

Not if they are Professional.

That must have been a terrible thing for you to witness George, I think you dealt with it in the best and most diplomatic way you could, well done you!

Going back to how my son was treated I think we were very fortunate to get a member of staff who was understanding and genuinely concerned about our son, as I said before she wanted to find out why he did it rather than ranting on about what he did. She listened to him and to us and asked our opinion on everything that was discussed she also asked J how he felt about the punishment that was set which made him feel included in the process rather than leaving him sat there in the room with us while we talked about him. I think teachers / staff members like the one we met with are out there but some do tend to 'take the easy route' instead of trying to understand why something happened. I don't work in a school, I have volunteered before and have seen lots of different ways of dealing with issues, some good, some not so good, all of you that have to deal with these things on a daily basis do a sterling job, if only more parents could see just how hard T.A's etc work to help their children then they might have a better understanding of 'school life' as it is now and not when they were at school.

(sorry for waffling on a bit )

Being both a parent and a professional (I hope) I do always try to look and talk about things with the children and listen and explain where things went wrong.A boy once said to another......'Listen to Mrs* because at least she is always fair.' It was one of the biggest compliments I felt I ever received.


You are right George unfortunately some teachers don't always have the patience to think through how a small change can be such a large obstacle for a child with ASD.Personally I think every teacher should have some ASD training as most come into contact at some time or other.

Jack,
How right you are about the training. The number of ASD pupils and EBD (in fact all AEN needs!) in my (Secondary) school is growing fast. Each year more join in Year 7 than leave in Year 11.

There has been training and advice offered, but in a large school, many of the teachers may never meet one of the needy students. Most seem to wait until they do to panic and call for help when it all goes pear shaped!

Some do not have the patience, but many may also not have the time - they may only see a student for one or two hours a week, so usually rely heavily on the TA to deal with any issues and implement strategies. Not ideal, but sometimes the best for all.

Hi JOAT and Martini,

As I've said before, I don't expect my daughters to be trained to deal with ASD. It is far more prevalent in boys then girls, and there does seem to be some differences in how it presents itself between boys and girls. Also it is a spectrum, which means the level of difficulties and sensitivities can vary a great deal.

Also I've noticed with Miss G that she will react differently to different teachers treating her in the same way. For instance one teacher being very firm with her would set her off, but another teacher doing the same she is fine with. I think it depends if she perceives if the teacher is treating her the same as other students or is 'picking on her'.

What I do expect is for teachers to familiarise themselves with any provisions in place. At her school they keep folders with information on such provisions and why. As it is a big issue with Miss G I would expect her to be aware there could be issues in suddenly changing her room around. To be fair though, she did own up to making the mistake and has learned. As a parent that makes things a lot easier to cope with, after all we are all human.

Certainly if a school is finding they are getting increasing numbers of asd students, or anything else which teacher are unfamiliar with, then perhaps schools do need to consider if training would be appropriate. Another would be to ensure teachers are aware that they will be having an ASD student in their class, and perhaps concentrate training for those dealing directly with them.

George,

Hopefully this is the way our school is going re training. A small number of TAs are going to be focussed on our ASD students, and so will have the training and also the familiarity with the students to help indentify potential stress points (such as the room change your daughter was faced with) and prempt where possible, and have the skills to help if not.

This is only half the story, though. As you rightly point out, ALL teachers should at least be aware which students in their class are on the AEN register, and should have read and be aware of provisions in their IEPs. I wish this were the case, but there always seems to be a small minority who just don't! I have found it frustrating and soul destrying to have the relationship you have built up with a student, and their often fragile effort, to be destroyed in a moment by a careless comment by the class teacher - simply because they weren't aware of the difficulties facing that student!

If I find this frustrating as a TA, I can only imagine how it would make a parent feel!

Yes George I meant those who have ASD pupils in class. I appreciate it is a bit different in Secondary although we set for KS2 Literacy and Numeracy.I was annoyed acouple of times in the past when something happened and I wasn't with my ASD pupil don't want to go into details but one involved an accident and because the teacher hadn't learnt anything about ASD the child was left when they should have had medical attention.I was told they had dealt with it and I was not to come down. Had the staff been on training they would have know pupils with ASD often don't react to pain and sometimes laugh.There were occasions when they changed lesson without informing me and the child and it would throw him.We had a visual timetable so it could have been changed the first day of the week to help him adjust.
Training in this area is available every year in Sept/Oct as well as occasional guest speakers and one teacher went on this when she was having a pupil in her class the others haven't bothered.Although it is a wide spectrum I think they should have some knowledge.They continually stress that the spectrum is wide and the training is very good as we have a person in this county for ASD.We have a few and a Secondary school is building a unit which shows there is quite a lot locally.We also have a Special School which caters for children up to 18. Some pupils do split schooling and some attend communication groups for a 1/2 day a week so it is well organised by the authority.