it did seem strange that he hadnt had any training in teaching phonics, unless that just hadnt been mentioned, although he was using some strategies that gave the impression he had eg when two vowels go walking etc.

I think he was quite brave to say how much he felt he had let pupils down in the past as a secondary school teacher and this is his way of trying to make up for it in a small way.

I did notice that he left the pupils who had a very low reading age for his "TA" to attend to.

despite his lack of experience with primary it was brilliant to see some of the success he was having and reduced me to tears when one of the older ladies actually started to read.

I will follow the series with interest

i thought it a very interesting and moving programme. There must be hundreds of ppl who fell through the net at school. And that is such a tragedy isnt it. That the education system down the years must have failed so many ppl. Makes me very angry.

It has sparked something for me. i want to explore the possibilities of changing direction and assisting adults in learning to read. Such a basic life skill and which has the capacity to change lives...

I want to be a part of that.

Catbells x

If it's something you want to do catbells go for it good luck & let us know how you get on

I turned over a bit late but thought it was great when he told the course co-ordinator what he thought of the adult literacy class, teaching english as a foreign language. I've seen these workbooks and they are absolutely useless if you can't read as you don't have the basic starting point.

What I would of liked to see is whether any of the adults had been assessed at anytime for dyslexia/SpLd or their learning style.

I'm a great believer that all students, adult or child should be assessed for their specific learning style. My son was struggling until one teacher sat him down and had him assessed, he is Kinaesthetic, Linguistic, with greater strength in Visual/Spatial and People Smart. He always struggled with reading music but can hear a piece and can sing it perfectly. When tested he was so low musically it all made sense. Sisnce this information was found out he has been able to adjust his methods in note taking and his revision.

A great programme which I hope inspires others.

I fully understand how the lady felt when it all became too much and she broke down. When I started my numeracy I felt as if I was back at age 11 totally overwhelmed, all the old feeling came to the surface. Just read an old school report:- Arithmetic- Daisycat is totally lost in this subject

Nothing was done to help me, I was one of the lost, left to get on with it.

Did I miss something? Wasn't he a teacher in a secondary school?

I'm going to risk being controversial here but surely the real failure is at primary school?

While I have been impressed on how much education has moved on in primary school, but the number of children who still make their way through primary education and still fail to read or write is a disgrace. By the time they have reached secondary education you have already lost them and it is an upward struggle. And this has been witnessed by the knock on effects for colleges and universities.

My daughters school has certainly been penalised by this. The year she started I think around 40% of the intake had a reading age of below 6. The school had to invest a lot of money in readin schemes and trying to work with parents on the most basic education they should have already received. I have no idea how long it is reasonable to expect the school to bring those students up to speed, but in the meantime they have other lessons which they are held back on because they don't have the basic skills.

While I know the some of the reasons why it is not popular, perhaps the need for streaming at primary school needs to be looked at again.

I would never advocate a restricted curriculum, but if a child cannot read or write then in effect that is what they end up with because of the barriers they face.

Personally I could not begin to imagine what it would be like not being able to read and write. (though according to Mrs & Miss G it would probably be more peaceful for them )

George
We have been streaming in our Primary for about seven years adding on as we went, so right down to Year 3 but they are going back to the old method except for Yr 6 next year.Personally I think it may be a mistake but we will see.If there are enough TA hours it may work ok.I agree it is appalling that these kids are slipping through George but I think it is equally appalling that a Secondary teacher does nothing about it.These kids should be referred and/or supported.This is where the Goverment should be putting the money.Part of the problem is that parents don't read to their kids, don't listen to them read and don't encourage them to when they can.I realise parents that cannot read themselves cannot do this but lots of parents that can don't bother.The EAL kids in our school learn quickly and have caught up in less than two years.All the kids in our school leave reading.Some of the pupils with SEN have lower attaintment but all are reading.

Hi JOAT,

I agree that it is appalling that Secondary schools have also failed, but I do feel within our education system it should be the primary schools who are responsible for teaching these most basic skills.

And while I wholeheartedly agree with you these children should have been supported or referred that should have been done during primary education.

In your example you give up to 2 years, this would mean the child is able to cope with reading and writing at a reasonable standard by year 9, one year before GCSEs are due to start. Is it realistic to expect these children to have caught up with so much that attaining 5 or more GCSEs A - C is a reasonable expectation?

If one or two fall through the gap then yes it is reasonable for the secondary school to expect to pick it up, but it is not reasonable to have an intake of 180 students aged 11 with 40% who can not read or have a reading level below a 6 year old.

I am totaly with you on the lack of support many children get from their parents. Some parents attitude to education is unbelievable. I really hate it when I hear parents say that it is the schools responsibility to teach them, and make myself unpopular when I point out the legal responsibility is theirs and not the school and they do not abdicate that responsibility simply because they dump their kids at the school each day. However I also feel that parenting skills in many families are at a crises point, but that is perhaps better left for another thread.

It's a sad fact these days that alot of children dont read books. or that there arent books in their homes. or that if there are some parents dont read to their children for whatever reason - the saddest of all that they are unable to...

When we had a dressing as a book character a while ago we had to include film characters too because so few children could identify with characters out of books.

x

I really enjoyed this programme even though yes, some of the phonic teaching was doubtful. I found it a real eye-opener. I cried when one lady sounded out a few words and realised that she could read.

Reading should indeed be taught at primary level. I work in a primary school and see children who have very weak phonic skills in KS2. Unfortunately we are finding that more and more children are arriving in KS1 unable to sit still, listen, take turns etc, for even the shortest time.

Their time in KS1 is spent learning the basic life-skills such as dressing, using cutlery, sharing and other basic social skills. It used to be that these things were taught in the home but increasingly we find these basic skills to be lacking. Unfortunately all of this is going on when children are expected to be learning to read. Phonic teaching is quite fast-paced and children are missing huge chunks as they are not yet ready for learning.

The Government expectations of teaching are that lessons/topics/teaching keep moving at quite a fast pace, packing in more and more. Unfortunately those children not ready to learn are missing out with little chance of catching up due to the lack of funding in schools, especially small schools, to provide additional support.

In September, in the school where I work, we are taking several KS2 children and starting phonic teaching again, right back at the beginning. These children are aged 7-8 but socially are now just ready to start school.

George
Sorry to confuse you.I had a teenager in my ear ranting on 'how much longer would I be on the computer.'I work in a Primary School and agree it should be addressed at Primary School as it is at ours.Some children are not ready to read at KS1 especially if the are displaying the milestones of a toddler and may take longer but all the children even the pupils with MLD and SLD are all reading by the time they leave.I have one child last year who may not as she has severe retention problems and a condition( do want to go into details) which may mean she doesn't achieve more than a 4.5 yr old.
The EAL pupils are going into Yr 5 in September.I am amazed how much they have learnt in the time.
However if the child hasn't learnt to read by Secondary they should have support and I feel the Government should put more money into Education especially reading.My sister was involved with a project in Scotland where the kids were failing and truanting from school and a charity set up a project to support the Secondary School. It has been such a success that the school have kept on three of the initial 9 people (sis is one) and they are turning around kids that were previously not able to sit exams into employable people when the leave.Most have been intergrated into school again some part-time and some full-time.A lot of these kids either can't readand/or have no self esteem or confidence.It has been such a success they have been held up as an example.They work with the families too.
I felt the second programme was better and great to see the confidence growing amongst them.Could we not do this everywhere?

I think its great that these few adults have had the opportunity to have this attention.

I agree with George about the primary schools, there is a fundemental problem with regards to teaching reading and writing. If there wasn't why are so many Y7s coming through who cannot access the curriculumn.

My local senior schools are having to introduce special reading schemes to teach pupils in order that they may access the curriculumn. We have so many pupils at my school that fall into the 'grey area' that we are penalised as this is not taken into account when looking at the end results of SATS and GCSEs. Local primary schools have been consulted to try and find out what the root cause for this is and this is ongoing.

Another knock on effect of having a large majority in senior school being unable to read and write to a level capable of keeping up is that there are insufficient TA hours available to assist. I would say I spend 3/4s of a lesson reading to pupils who have difficulty as they have poor reading skills as well as supporting my one to one student.

will be interested to watch this last programme tonight, is it Phil Beadle the guy who spouts behaviour but couldnt control the kids in that other programme?

i have a lot of contact with young adults who have fallen through the net so will be good for me to watch

Daisyat ..in FE we do take into account learning styles/preferences when assessing students at the top of the year so im sure these students would have had this assessment too. We are also aware now of lots of learning diffifulties coming into college, whether declared or not, though that isnt to say there is always funding for support for some of those students

it was interesting to watch, but i would have liked to see his teaching methods for the adults, for example the desks and chairs were in an old fashioned layout, not easy for peer support and learning. I wondered if he helped to suppport the dyslexic adults with any strategies to help them ope with their diffiulties...i didnt see any evidence of that

i didnt like the pratice papers for the whole lesson...what were they learning, did he go through them after/during and allow them to help each other with explanations....once again no evidence

also didnt like the way he fed back to them with their results.....seemed quite negative to me

maybe he should stick to teaching in school and make sure ALL his pupils learn so they dont have the same problems in the future

i would feel that any adult who had problems with reading and writing who was watching would have been put off by that approach which to me is so unlike the friendly and helpful ways adults are supported with literacy

he was also totally confused about the levels and equivalence of the GCSE and the adult literacy.....telling them they would have a GCSE....errmmm no you have an equivalent level

i didn't much care for his approach fullstop. but nonetheless i've found it a very moving set of programmes. Sparked something off within me.

However...it hasnt stopped me from wanting to find out more about supporting adults literacy. Our Connections careers service place has a 'drop in' every afternoon - so one afternoon i shall go and drop in!

no harm in finding out...

push doors and one of them might open...

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